Mike S., on Dec 4 2007, 01:06 PM, said:
Dear Martin,
Much respect to you and your wife for riding your bikes in all conditons.
Never present a motor vehicle operator's license at the scene of a bicycle traffic stop.
It can only hurt you. Unless an officer has a reason to suspect that you have been operating a motor vehicle, their demanding that you present a motor vehicle operator's license is a violation of your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination.
If the police officer asks whether you are licensed to operate, tell them the truth but do not present the license unless they demand it.
Just ask, "Are you demanding to see my driver's license?".
If they demand to see a motor vehicle operator's license at the scene of a bicycle traffic stop, it is probably tantamount to an illegal search since the officer has no reason to believe that you have been operating a motor vehicle. Requiring you to present it is definitely a violation of your 5th Amendment right to freedom form self imcrimination.
If they're stupid enough to think that you really are required to ride on the sidewalk they're probably also stupid enough to be tricked into violating your rights in the investigation of an alleged incident.
If so, let them do it. Then it will be very easy to get the charge(s) dropped.
If the charges are dropped, that makes the officer look bad. Attorneys in general, prosecutors especially, don't like to deal with petty crap.
If not, they will probably just back down and ask for some other way to identify you.
Now you've assured yourself that you are not going to get charged with anything that's going to effect your eligibility to drive or auto insurance rates.
They mostly deal with violations of motor vehicle operator's code so as soon you make them charge you with a violation of non-motor vehicle related law, they are grabbing at straws.
I believe that there has been a Supreme Court ruling on whther or not a person is required to carry, and/ or present on request, a state issued ID card as well.
Give your name, address and phone number. Maybe social security #.
Don't lie.
Let them charge you with riding your bike on the road in violation of whatever law they seem to think exists pertaining to it and be on your way. It will be like jay walking or something.
Its only going to make the cop look stupid for writing such a stupid citation while there are so many other major violations going on. That's all that will happen. The cop will look stupid.
So let it happen.
Mike
Much respect to you and your wife for riding your bikes in all conditons.
Never present a motor vehicle operator's license at the scene of a bicycle traffic stop.
It can only hurt you. Unless an officer has a reason to suspect that you have been operating a motor vehicle, their demanding that you present a motor vehicle operator's license is a violation of your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination.
If the police officer asks whether you are licensed to operate, tell them the truth but do not present the license unless they demand it.
Just ask, "Are you demanding to see my driver's license?".
If they demand to see a motor vehicle operator's license at the scene of a bicycle traffic stop, it is probably tantamount to an illegal search since the officer has no reason to believe that you have been operating a motor vehicle. Requiring you to present it is definitely a violation of your 5th Amendment right to freedom form self imcrimination.
If they're stupid enough to think that you really are required to ride on the sidewalk they're probably also stupid enough to be tricked into violating your rights in the investigation of an alleged incident.
If so, let them do it. Then it will be very easy to get the charge(s) dropped.
If the charges are dropped, that makes the officer look bad. Attorneys in general, prosecutors especially, don't like to deal with petty crap.
If not, they will probably just back down and ask for some other way to identify you.
Now you've assured yourself that you are not going to get charged with anything that's going to effect your eligibility to drive or auto insurance rates.
They mostly deal with violations of motor vehicle operator's code so as soon you make them charge you with a violation of non-motor vehicle related law, they are grabbing at straws.
I believe that there has been a Supreme Court ruling on whther or not a person is required to carry, and/ or present on request, a state issued ID card as well.
Give your name, address and phone number. Maybe social security #.
Don't lie.
Let them charge you with riding your bike on the road in violation of whatever law they seem to think exists pertaining to it and be on your way. It will be like jay walking or something.
Its only going to make the cop look stupid for writing such a stupid citation while there are so many other major violations going on. That's all that will happen. The cop will look stupid.
So let it happen.
Mike
Lot of horrible advice here. An officer's request for identificaiton implicates neither the fourth or fifth amendments. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Dist. Court of Nevada, Humboldt County, 542 U.S. 177, 185 (2004) ("Answering a request to disclose a name is likely to be so insignificant in the scheme of things as to be incriminating only in unusual circumstances;" "Even witnesses who plan to invoke the Fifth Amendment privilege answer when their names are called to take the stand;" "Interrogation relating to one's identity or a request for identification by the police does not, by itself, constitute a Fourth Amendment seizure.") Not to mention, if you hand your license to an officer you have given consent...
Just be glad you don't live in California, where they can arrest and take you to jail for failure to present valid proof of identification after commission of any petty traffic offense, such as riding the wrong way down a one-way street. People v. McKay, 27 Cal.4th 601 (Cal. 2002). Of course, the cops probably wouldn't bother lycra-clad warriors...I know first hand that it 's a good way for police to then be able to conduct a search incident to arrest to bust you for meth or crack or whatever.
Having said that, this cop was obviously having a bad day and powertripping. As I and many others have found out first hand, when you refuse to cooperate with an officer you do so at your peril.
