17 replies to this topic

[dwarfed centipede]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what kind of average speeds a Cat 5 road race averages over the lenght of about 35 mi?  My first Cat 5 Crit race the average for 30min was about 23 mph, but I would think the RR would average quite a bit lower with all the hills and extra distance.  It would be nice to have a training goal to shoot for.  Right now I'm averaging mid to low 17's for my long rides.  Thanks.

[thefutureofamerica]

I would say a cat 5 race like Hellbender would average around 18-19... but you'll easily make up that extra 1-2 mph with drafting in a group and not having to stop for lights/stop signs, etc. It's not really the average speed that matters, though... road races often have long periods of just riding along followed by attacks or hills that are when you need your fitness - but figuring that out is the whole point of cat 5. Good luck!

[Pot Hole]

Quote

but I would think the RR would average quite a bit lower with all the hills and extra distance. It would be nice to have a training goal to shoot for. Right now I'm averaging mid to low 17's for my long rides. Thanks.

That's right. And never forget that winds and heat and pavement type affect speeds as well.

One former State Road Champion told me he thought 20mph was an effective solo training speed. But he was beyond Cat 5.

[Russian Bear]

Average speed is not a good indicator of anything. It does not take into account gradient, surface, wind etc. Also when you are forced into a race situation you will be surprised what you are capable of.

The  answer is just go do the road race and have fun!

[pylondesigner]

Russian Bear, on 01 June 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Average speed is not a good indicator of anything. It does not take into account gradient, surface, wind etc. Also when you are forced into a race situation you will be surprised what you are capable of.

The  answer is just go do the road race and have fun!

Concur . You shouldn't be looking at your bike computer anyway.  racing heads up will keep you out of trouble.  U goes when they goes, and go hard at the end.  don't leave anything in the tank.

[aligni]

For a point of reference - the average speed of the 2011 O'Fallon Grand Prix Cat 5's was 22.0 mph (25 miles).  It was about 110 degrees on the road last year...so take that into consideration.
http://www.ultramaxt...ex_Ofallon.html

2012 Hillsboro Cat 5's was 22.8 mph (28.5 miles) in the rain and 55 degrees.

[kgvc7]

I think saying, "You shouldn't be looking at your bike computer" or "Average speed is not a good indicator of anything" is not good advice.  A power tap is probably your best source when you need to know how well you're doing.  But they are not affordable for everyone.  If you keep consistent data and track your ave. speeds (take into account your route, wind, temp, heart rate, ect...), you'll know if you're getting better.  The Saturday morning big shark route averages about 17 mph, and I would say most riders around here average ~18 mph on 2-4 hour rides.

I have a variety of routes I ride and use said data to see if my fitness is improving.  That can give you an approximation of how you're training is going.  The best advice is just to push hard, and when you think you're out of strength, push harder.  In any race, stay with the pack; you'll be sorry if you get dropped, as its almost impossible to catch up.

Tuesday night worlds are a great place to practice and improve fitness.

[tarmac72]

kgvc7, on 01 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I think saying, "You shouldn't be looking at your bike computer" or "Average speed is not a good indicator of anything" is not good advice.  A power tap is probably your best source when you need to know how well you're doing.  But they are not affordable for everyone.  If you keep consistent data and track your ave. speeds (take into account your route, wind, temp, heart rate, ect...), you'll know if you're getting better.  

It's EXCELLENT advice. Beginner racers(and quite a few "experienced") need to pay attention to their environment, not worry about an avg speed in the middle of a group ride or a race. Watch wheels and movements of racers.
I am not saying you don't need a computer or a PM, but they have no place in a cat5 race. put them in your jersey pocket (assuming we are wireless) and DL after the race.
Enjoy learning how to race and not being a slave to numbers

[billh]

I'd say it depends on the racer . . . for some, geeking out on numbers is great fun . . . and it can really improve training, for example, I saw max average power in races I never saw in training, and then used those new maxes to adjust training intensity upwards . . . then after awhile, get burned out on numbers and just ride.

[cleeland]

kgvc7, on 01 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I think saying, "You shouldn't be looking at your bike computer" or "Average speed is not a good indicator of anything" is not good advice.

and

Quote

The best advice is just to push hard, and when you think you're out of strength, push harder.  In any race, stay with the pack; you'll be sorry if you get dropped, as its almost impossible to catch up.

Those two statements contradict each other.  More specifically, the 2nd quote is what was meant by "you shouldn't be looking at your bike computer".

More to the point, it's been awhile since I've been in a cat 5 race, but what I remember striking me as I moved up the ranks was that the predictability of the field increases.  Not that the races are boring, but that the people who are racing in higher category fields behave more consistently than lower category fields.  What you will experience in a cat 5 race will be highly dependent on who else shows up and how you decide to race against or with them.

I know that when I asked this question it was out of concern that I would be wasting my time/money in showing up at the race because I would not be able to hang with the field.  Sometimes I still ask that question quietly to myself.  The reality is that if you probably need to be able to average 18-22 (depending on terrain) to finish near the front of a Cat 5 race.  But that doesn't mean you shouldn't show up.  A little self-doubt is a healthy thing on occasion.  Just get out there and ride your bike, be smart, don't overlap wheels and keep your eyes on something farther ahead than the wheel immediately in front of you.

[kgvc7]

tarmac72, on 01 June 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

It's EXCELLENT advice. Beginner racers(and quite a few "experienced") need to pay attention to their environment, not worry about an avg speed in the middle of a group ride or a race. Watch wheels and movements of racers.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you should be focused on your bike computer while riding.  All that matters when you're racing is that your with the pack.  The data analysis after the ride is key if you're training.  You have to keep track of how you're progressing and average speed is an OK way to do that if that is all you have.  But the original question was is 17 mph enough?  And I think "thefutureofamerica" answered it best by saying that its the fitness that counts.  

cleeland said:

Those two statements contradict each other.

How?

[cleeland]

Contradiction is that in the first you're saying you have to pay attention to bike computers, and in the second you're saying all that's important is to go hard.

Bike racing is more than just fitness.  It's about staying out of trouble, reading a race, using what youve got at the right time and doing nothing the rest of the the time. Obviously you need a minimum level of fitness to get in the door, but being smart/cunning can make up for some fitness.

The reality is that it doesn't matter what the speed was like last year because last year's cat 5s shouldn't be in this years cat 5 race. The race's behavior is dependent mostly on the field and the people racing in that field. If you've raced with the same folks so far this season you probably have a better idea how things will proceed than anyone who hasn't.

Average of 17mph for a race, even a 52 mile road race, seems slow.

[kgvc7]

cleeland, on 02 June 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Contradiction is that in the first you're saying you have to pay attention to bike computers, and in the second you're saying all that's important is to go hard.

Saying this is a contradiction is incorrect.  There are two topics here; computers and fitness.

[king furby]

Looking at a computer while racing will almost certainly guarantee that you will lose...unless you're racing a time trial. Solo average speed is like self-gratification. It has no useful meaning to anyone else but you.

[cleeland]

kgvc7, on 03 June 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

cleeland, on 02 June 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Contradiction is that in the first you're saying you have to pay attention to bike computers, and in the second you're saying all that's important is to go hard.

Saying this is a contradiction is incorrect.  There are two topics here; computers and fitness.

Same topic because most often the question of speed comes up because it's used as a proxy for fitness--as it was in the original post.  The most reliable way to measure speed is with a computer.  Ergo, those statements contradict each other.