17 replies to this topic

[Sean Ross]

I was taught and always used the following: take your turn at the front.. pull at a steady pace, dont make a sudden acceleration.. when ready to pull off.... move to the left and slowly drift back... sprint like hell to get back on the rear wheel!

HOWEVER

I have seen this done differently. WILDLY differently.

Is there a standard?

[tarmac72]

why are you pulling off to the left?
why are you sprinting like h3ll to get back on the rear wheel??

[thefutureofamerica]

Left/right depends on conditions... in a race, you pull off to drift back in the slipstream of the line. i.e. if the wind is from the right, pull off to the left. On open roads riding the shoulder, it's safer if the line keeps a little left to let people pull off to the right. That way you don't have to move out towards traffic unexpectedly... but again, it depends on conditions. I think the best thing is to discuss with your linemates and just pick a setup... safer if everyone agrees to some one thing than if each one does what they think is safest/best.

As far as sprinting like hell... that hurts. Don't drift back too quickly, re-accelerate early, and just drop in. Saves a lot of energy if done right. One of the keys is to stop pulling before you're too dead to do it right. If you're pulling to your limit, you're slowing the group down.

This book has a nice chapter on this with diagrams and such if you're into that sort of thing.

[DanSchmatz]

thefutureofamerica, on 24 February 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Left/right depends on conditions... in a race, you pull off to drift back in the slipstream of the line. i.e. if the wind is from the right, pull off to the left.

That is not correct.

If you were in echlon in a crosswind with the wind brlowing from the right and tried to pull off to the left you would hook the guy behind you and both hit the floor. Swing off into the wind, stay as close to the bunch as you can without causing anyone else to deviate from their line and slide back into the protected side when you get to the back of teh bunch.

[ClesieMo]

Always seems like I end up behind a munchkin in the pace line...pokes a really small hole in the wind...everybody wants on the wheel of the 6'4" guy...its like following a semi down the road.

[thefutureofamerica]

DanSchmatz, on 24 February 2012 - 12:04 PM, said:

thefutureofamerica, on 24 February 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Left/right depends on conditions... in a race, you pull off to drift back in the slipstream of the line. i.e. if the wind is from the right, pull off to the left.

That is not correct.

If you were in echlon in a crosswind with the wind brlowing from the right and tried to pull off to the left you would hook the guy behind you and both hit the floor. Swing off into the wind, stay as close to the bunch as you can without causing anyone else to deviate from their line and slide back into the protected side when you get to the back of teh bunch.

Dan, you obviously 100,000% outrank me on this question, but it also seems to me that I've heard it both ways from people at your level of experience. Isn't this why you're not supposed to cross wheels? Maybe the difference is between echeloned in a crosswind vs. mostly a headwind that has people in a straighter line. I dunno. But I appreciate your input and would be interested in further discussion.

Edited by thefutureofamerica, 24 February 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[tarmac72]

pacelines aren't echelons and vice versa

[thogan11]

Don't take a pull and wait until end to sprint and you will not have to worry about any of this....

[DanSchmatz]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Left/right depends on conditions... in a race, you pull off to drift back in the slipstream of the line. i.e. if the wind is from the right, pull off to the left.

That is not correct.

If you were in echlon in a crosswind with the wind brlowing from the right and tried to pull off to the left you would hook the guy behind you and both hit the floor. Swing off into the wind, stay as close to the bunch as you can without causing anyone else to deviate from their line and slide back into the protected side when you get to the back of teh bunch.

Dan, you obviously 100,000% outrank me on this question, but it also seems to me that I've heard it both ways from people at your level of experience. Isn't this why you're not supposed to cross wheels? Maybe the difference is between echeloned in a crosswind vs. mostly a headwind that has people in a straighter line. I dunno. But I appreciate your input and would be interested in further discussion.

In most areas of the country you almost never have no wind. Given the way roads bend and turn you almost never have a straight headwind or tailwind so you end up of the wheel in front of you to one side or the other. In the rare chance you have a full on straight headwind or tailwind swing off to the side the person in front of you does. Evantually you will turn and need to pick the correct side.

If the wind is hard enough you may have your front wheel all the way up the the persons BB so there is no way to get around. Additionally if you swing off to the protected side and can get around then person behind you you are not helping the group. IE, its much easier to ride in the wind pedaling 85% and sliding back then being on the front of the group. As you come off the front you give the person behind you that little extra protection which really adds up after a while. Not to mention if you go off to the protected side you will eventually split the group as you slide back and get to the gutter before the last person goes by you.

Here is photo of a what I am talking about, quickstep boys drilling it during a crosswind section with Boonen in the sweet spot. The guy on the front will slide riders right and slowy drift back then slide back in front of Boonen. If the guy on the front tried to go up and around he would ball the rotation up:

Edited by DanSchmatz, 24 February 2012 - 03:07 PM.

[tarmac72]

watch at about 1:30 they get the "drift"
these are 16y/o Dutch jrs

[DoubleJ]

JB, I worry about you (and Joe) with all this talk of 16yr old Dutch boys and pulling with your left... (ha!)

BTW - Good luck Sunday

[Sean Ross]

tarmac72, on 24 February 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

why are you sprinting like h3ll to get back on the rear wheel??

WELL
that part was actually a joke... but sometimes it feels like it.

[tarmac72]

DoubleJ, on 24 February 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

JB, I worry about you (and Joe) with all this talk of 16yr old Dutch boys and pulling with your left... (ha!)

BTW - Good luck Sunday

is it wrong the team van has a free candy sign on the side?
be well, J!
see ya at the WAFFLE

[tarmac72]

Sean Ross, on 25 February 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

tarmac72, on 24 February 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

why are you sprinting like h3ll to get back on the rear wheel??

WELL
that part was actually a joke... but sometimes it feels like it.

bike racing = efficiency

[thefutureofamerica]

tarmac72, on 24 February 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

watch at about 1:30 they get the "drift"
these are 16y/o Dutch jrs

That is terrifying.