Jump to content


St Charles Co To Ban Bikes In Sw County Area


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
190 replies to this topic

#1 MFB

MFB

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 04:16 PM

Attached is the article about the proposed bill.  Joe Brazil's cell # is 636-399-2975




St. Louis Metropolitan Area and surrounding Missouri and Illinois counties
home | jefferson county | madison | monroe county | north | south | st. charles county | st. clair | warren county | west
classifieds | print ads | recent home sales | obits | search archives | photo galleries | podcasts | SJ Health
EMAIL PRINT WRITE LETTER TO EDITOR
CommentNo comments posted.

Bill would ban bicycles from some highways in St. Charles County
County councilman cites safety concern

ShareThis Buzz up!vote now


Friday, July 9, 2010 3:10 PM CDT

A bill that would ban bicyclists from using state highways in southwestern St. Charles County will be introduced during the St. Charles County Council's meeting Monday night.

Councilman Joe Brazil, R-District 2, requested the bill.

"We spend millions of dollars a year on parks and trails," Brazil said in a news release issued by the county. "The bicyclists need to stay on the trails that were made for bikes and off the roads in southwest St. Charles County."

The proposed ordinance would prohibit bicycles on highways DD, D, F and Z and Highway 94 from its intersection with Highway 40 west to the county line. The ordinance would apply to highways that lack shoulders or bicycle lanes.

"I get more complaints about this single issue than any other issue," Brazil said. "The speed limit is 55 mph. You come around a corner and there are two bikes in your lane. You can't pass them, and it becomes a hazard."


Photo Galleries | Prep Sports Photos


No one has to get on these highways to ride their bikes, he said. "You can ride from St. Charles to Augusta and back without ever getting on Highway 94. That's why the Katy Trail is there," Brazil said.

Brazil said he would expect small towns along the way, such as Defiance, Augusta and New Melle, would be exempt.

"This isn't about people who get on their bicycle and ride down to the local store and back home," Brazil said.

ShareThis Buzz up!vote now

Most Popular


Most Commented

#2 subzero

subzero

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 145 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM

You knew it was only a matter of time.
I've got a fever.
And the Prescription is!
MORE COWBELL!!!!
My link

" Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin

#3 Birkenfeld1

Birkenfeld1

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 607 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM

On DD, D, F and Z reduce the speedlimit to 35 mph, put up signs share the road and the problem is solved.
People who ride on the road are others than those on the Katytrail. Katytrail is for Grandpa and Grandma and a trip to the Beergarden.
Cardrivers should ride a bicycle themselves, they would never complain about a person on the road. Those who complain are most likely bad drivers, check their driverslicenserecords and the next time they complain, take their license for 6 month.
Problem solved!
PUMA
Birkenfeld1-Puma

#4 BradlyKF

BradlyKF

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 42 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 05:54 PM

I just spoke to Joe Brazil and he said  "he was representing the majority of his constituents"  and that this issue is the one that he and the other county council members get the most complaints about.

He repeated that they are very bike friendly and that they spent millions on parks with bike trails and the Katy trail.  He said that at least 3 times.

He was nice about it and I did not get angry with him on the phone.  He invited me to come to the meeting.

He said "we cant have the one or two bicycles on these roads"  

I asked how people will know if bikes are banned and he said there will be signage put up

#5 Diogenes

Diogenes

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,058 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:07 PM

View PostBirkenfeld1, on 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

Katytrail (sic) is for Grandpa and Grandma and a trip to the Beergarden.
My, how generous of you.  Guess you're one of them thar youngun' elite guys, huh?

View PostBirkenfeld1, on 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

Those who complain are most likely bad drivers, check their driverslicenserecords (sic) and the next time they complain, take their license for 6 month.
Let he who is without sin...
Let he who is without presumption...


#6 MFB

MFB

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:21 PM

From Bob Mionske of Bicyclelaw.com regarding Black Hawk CO attempted bike ban:    

"If safety was the goal, one might ask if it doesn’t make more sense to “promote safety” by banning motor vehicles. After all, they are the source of the problem. But of course, casino patrons arrive by motor vehicle, and casinos have kept the city alive, so banning motor vehicles wouldn’t do. But what about addressing infrastructure problems? What about requiring motorists to share road space with cyclists? What about requiring motorists to safely operate their vehicles while sharing the roads? That’s the approach that other cities across America have taken as they confront their own traffic safety problems.

Where the roads are dominated by the automobile, it is because they have been usurped. Many motorists—specifically, those who refuse to share the roads—mistakenly believe that their possession of a driver’s license gives them a superior claim to the road. These are the motorists who exclaim that, “Until cyclists are licensed and insured, they don’t have a right to the road.” In fact, the right to travel is an ancient right, now recognized as one of our constitutional rights, and the roads are the commons, open to all for travel and other uses. Rather than signifying a superior claim to the road, a driver’s license merely grants the holder the revocable privilege of operating a motor vehicle on the commons. Because other road users are not required to be licensed (and that tacitly means this right cannot be revoked) their right to use the roads is in fact superior to that of the motorist."

#7 MFB

MFB

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:48 PM

If they're allowed to do this it will be open season on all St Charles Co roads including St Paul and the Orchard Farm areas.  Brazil lives in the area and probably got held up for a minute on the way to the store trying to pass a few cyclists.  I guess he's not worried about the numerous drunks who drive those roads home from the wineries and all the other automobile/motorcycle deaths that have happened on 94 and DD.  I can't recall any cyclist related deaths on any of those roads since 99% of cyclists stay off most of Hwy 94 and DD.  What ever happened to individual responsibility?

#8 Jeff A

Jeff A

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 07:47 PM

My in-laws live off DD near D so I drive out there quite a bit.  Rights and priveleges notwithstanding, you couldn't pay me to ride on those roads. It borders on suicidal.

#9 sjm

sjm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:13 PM

I live in Lake St Louis and if this law passes I won't be able to ride from my house to the back roads of Augusta/Marthasville since I'd be on D for a quarter mile and then F to Femme Osage.  Anyone who ridden these roads knows that the short stretch on D and Hwy F are very safe roads for cyclists as long as you use common sense and stay off during rush hour.  If this passes you can bet your ass that people will get wind of it in Jeff county and any other area that cyclists are not welcome and try to pass something similar.

#10 RaoulDuke

RaoulDuke

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 96 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:45 PM

Wow.  Highway F is the only road that anybody really rides regularly for any stretch.  This ban would screw up Augusta and Marthasville routes.  

This cannot be allowed to pass.  It will setup other counties to start up bans.

Where is the meeting at?

Also, anybody know where to get crime and death statistics for St. Charles county?

I know for a fact there are a number of DWI arrests off of 94 from people coming from Augusta and Defiance.  I am not aware of any accidents from cyclists.  I would like to see the difference in the numbers for that area.  Using the logic they are using with the safety argument, wouldn't it be safer to place limits on the establishments that serve alcohol?

#11 Rodgers

Rodgers

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 455 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:58 PM

View PostMFB, on 09 July 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

If they're allowed to do this it will be open season on all St Charles Co roads including St Paul and the Orchard Farm areas.  Brazil lives in the area and probably got held up for a minute on the way to the store trying to pass a few cyclists.  I guess he's not worried about the numerous drunks who drive those roads home from the wineries and all the other automobile/motorcycle deaths that have happened on 94 and DD.  I can't recall any cyclist related deaths on any of those roads since 99% of cyclists stay off most of Hwy 94 and DD.  What ever happened to individual responsibility?


It started small in Colorado, now they are trying to pass a law to ban the entire 64 counties in Colorado from cyclists.

Recommend we show up on Monday instead of doing the Monday night group ride.  There's strength in numbers.  If we dont organize and just randomly call this guy, its not going to do much.
Josh Rodgers
St Peters, MO
Cat 3 Road/Cat 3 CX

#12 sjm

sjm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 09:31 PM

View PostRodgers, on 09 July 2010 - 08:58 PM, said:

View PostMFB, on 09 July 2010 - 06:48 PM, said:

If they're allowed to do this it will be open season on all St Charles Co roads including St Paul and the Orchard Farm areas.  Brazil lives in the area and probably got held up for a minute on the way to the store trying to pass a few cyclists.  I guess he's not worried about the numerous drunks who drive those roads home from the wineries and all the other automobile/motorcycle deaths that have happened on 94 and DD.  I can't recall any cyclist related deaths on any of those roads since 99% of cyclists stay off most of Hwy 94 and DD.  What ever happened to individual responsibility?


It started small in Colorado, now they are trying to pass a law to ban the entire 64 counties in Colorado from cyclists.

Recommend we show up on Monday instead of doing the Monday night group ride.  There's strength in numbers.  If we dont organize and just randomly call this guy, its not going to do much.


Josh-I'm going to try to get everyone to do the Monday night ride early and then go to the meeting.  Check the Momentum forum or website for more info in the future.

#13 sjm

sjm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 245 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:45 PM

Also, remember that Gran Fondo that you did in Augusta-won't happen again if this bill is passed.  All of those roads will be banned.

#14 billh

billh

    Elite Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,812 posts

Posted 09 July 2010 - 11:12 PM

I'm pretty sure state law takes priority over local and county laws.  State law gives cyclists all the rights and responsibilities that motorists have.  I don't see how they can legally pass a ban.  

Doesn't St Charles Dept of Transportation receive federal funds to build and maintain roads?  How can they take my tax money and then deny me the right to ride on public roads?  That's what "public" means, right, open to the public, ie. you and me.  

If these roads are not safe for bicyclists, maybe they are not really safe for motorists?  What if a motorist breaks down with a flat tire on one of these shoulderless, blind turns, and another car comes whizzing around the corner at 55 mph.  Sounds like the speed limit is set too high if that is a danger.  But that doesn't mean they have to ban cyclists.  Why not ban motorcyclists, semi-trucks, dump trucks, harvesters, grannies in Chrysler LeBarons, or any other arbitrary group of road users.  

I'll definitely be there Monday.  If this passes in St Charles, the dominos will start to fall across the state.  Bill H.
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one"  JD Salinger, Catcher in the Rye, 1963

#15 Birkenfeld1

Birkenfeld1

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 607 posts

Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:11 PM

View PostDiogenes, on 09 July 2010 - 06:07 PM, said:

View PostBirkenfeld1, on 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

Katytrail (sic) is for Grandpa and Grandma and a trip to the Beergarden.
My, how generous of you.  Guess you're one of them thar youngun' elite guys, huh?

View PostBirkenfeld1, on 09 July 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

Those who complain are most likely bad drivers, check their driverslicenserecords (sic) and the next time they complain, take their license for 6 month.
Let he who is without sin...
Let he who is without presumption...

I am 49 years, 9 month and 20 days old, have 4 children, all rode on the Katytrail with me, a great family bikeriding trail. Katytrail has nothing to do with riding on the road for fun , for exercise or training. The roads here are great for biketraining, good climbs, rollers etc...
A cyclist can always be passed by a car, those complaining have other issues, maybe jealousy.
I know what I am talking about , re complainers and people who are "mad' at cyclist....
Sitting in a car for those people is like having a big gun to scare someone or even worse..
I was around when individuals in big pick up trucks , came close to kids , honk their horn, want to see the kid or adult fall, than take off an blow black exhaust in your face, want to run you off the street, threaten to kill you , etc...
Enjoy Life, live green, ride your bike everywhere, except on the highway, live free and drink Beer!
PUMA
Birkenfeld1-Puma