40 replies to this topic

[Rusty-P]

Hermann TT is ~10 miles.  I think the Tour of STL TT is similar in length.  I saw quite a few guys with clip-ons.  Some also finished quite well.  To each his own though.  Here is the site for Hermann http://tourofhermann.com/.

[live2beoutside]

If you're looking to come to STL for a race and don't want to do Gateway again, I'd echo the comments on Hermann.  If you're looking to travel to an epic road race akin to a Spring Classic, I'd recommend Rouge Roubaix in Louisana:

http://www.rougeroub...m/Home_Page.php

[Mike S.]

epirtle, on 08 November 2009 - 05:37 PM, said:

I have only participated in this race once before on the first year, so my memory is bad.

Is there a phantom yellow line rule on the narrow, unpainted roads?

If not, I do not see how the road would be too narrow to fit everyone safely.

As everyone knows the Euros race on skinnier roads than Hillsboro with more riders in nearly every event. However, they are mostly all rolling enclosures.

------------------

Its really up to you.  

If you feel like getting splattered all over the front of an automobile, you can ride where ever you like.

You're in charge of your own ride out there.  

If you want to register early just get in touch with The Coordinators.  Tell them you're from the West Coast and they should have something for you.

[bluto]

live2beoutside, on 09 November 2009 - 09:21 AM, said:

If you're looking to come to STL for a race and don't want to do Gateway again, I'd echo the comments on Hermann.  If you're looking to travel to an epic road race akin to a Spring Classic, I'd recommend Rouge Roubaix in Louisana:

http://www.rougeroub...m/Home_Page.php

If I had family in or around the start of that race that'd supply free room, food, transportation like i do in STL I'd think about it......looks cool.

"Don't want to do Gateway Again".....what? you crazy? Two years ago I brought one guy back. When we returned to AZ we talked about how well the race was put on (the crowds, venues, people, etc) that there were an additional 4 guys that begged to go this year. Next year...I'm guessing there'll be about 10 dudes that want to come back for it. Gateway is definitley on the calendar for good...........I just thought Hillsboro would be different, unique, cool, etc. race. Still not giving up on it i don't think.

ALSO...i already contaced the promoter(s) saying i'd bring "5 guys guaranteed!" and was pretty much told to "stand in line like everyone else." I wasn't expecting special treatment but have already exhausted 'that route.'

[live2beoutside]

bluto, on 09 November 2009 - 10:49 AM, said:

. . ."Don't want to do Gateway Again".....what? you crazy?

bluto, on 08 November 2009 - 09:06 PM, said:

. . .After bringing 5 of my buddies back for the Gateway Cup the past two years, they're now bugging me to find another venue to come back and race.....

I guess I misunderstood - I thought you were looking for a new race to replace Gateway . . No worries . . .  

[rich pierce]

Just FYI, don't want to argue the merits and shortcomings of our race (H-R)here, or anywhere for that matter, but the course will be longer next year and will incorporate more open roads w/o losing the character of the course.  The most dangerous turn early in the course will be eliminated (yes, that downhill, off camber lefty about 2.5 miles in).  By using a 28-29 mile lap we can reduce laps to 3 for the pro/1/2 group, 2 laps for 3's and masters, etc thereby reducing the problems of fields passing each other on the course.

[Rusty-P]

That is good to hear Rich. Do you guys have a map showing the old course and new extended course?

[live2beoutside]

rich pierce, on 09 November 2009 - 01:13 PM, said:

Just FYI, don't want to argue the merits and shortcomings of our race (H-R)here, or anywhere for that matter, but the course will be longer next year and will incorporate more open roads w/o losing the character of the course.  The most dangerous turn early in the course will be eliminated (yes, that downhill, off camber lefty about 2.5 miles in).  By using a 28-29 mile lap we can reduce laps to 3 for the pro/1/2 group, 2 laps for 3's and masters, etc thereby reducing the problems of fields passing each other on the course.

Excellent news !!!  

[rich pierce]

I don't have the new route/old route comparison composed in a tidy format yet.  And I want to point out I am not the promoter- that's Todd Harris.  But I am the stlbiking junkie on the club.  Kinda like staying at a Holiday Inn Express, I guess.  I did lay out 4 possible "new" routes that kept most of the original course, lost the early sketchiest sections and a couple other sketchy sections, and added miles of wide road.  Todd went up and drove the various options and picked the "do-able" one. The good folks of Hillsboro have committed to helping with course marshals for the extended route.

Here's the likely route.  Note that miles 8-14 are the new extended open road sections.
mapmyride new route

The major changes are that
1) We skip the first right hand turn that goes up a winding climb topping out at a blind crest followed by a hard downhill lefthand off-camber gravelly turn.  Instead we take the next right hander.  Flatter, no blind spots, no downhill off camber gravelly turn.  

2) We added 5 miles of open wide road on the "out" section.  This should give racers the opportunity to move up, catch up, reposition themselves in the peleton, etc.

We're doing all we can to keep the race safe, etc, but rolling enclosure or total enclosure is only possible when there is just one field on the course, and that is not an option here.  The venue is unusual and poses challenges for the promoter and officials as well as the racers.  

Other challenges are because of the success of the race.  The first year we got about 235 racers, and that was good.  Now some racers get mad (just disappointed and annoyed, really) because we won't save them a place in advance when we know some fields will fill up in 6 hours after opening pre-registration.

But it's been fun every year for us and we've enjoyed getting to know the townspeople and support their police force and local cancer association.  Most of all it's great to see the heart in all the racers who come out to challenge themselves and each other on a hard race in the early part of the year. One thing I've learned over the years is that racers make good races, or make races good.

Also please keep in mind the pride the locals have in this race.  Every year they go out and pick any trash off the roadsides over the whole course so it looks good for you guys. They help us sweep every corner.  The church folks open their doors for us all.  The town puts out all their auxiliary police on the course.  The Montgomery County Cancer Association puts 60 volunteers out for course prep and course marshaling.  They cold or hot patch some of the back road exclusively for the race.  They are doing as good a job at welcoming you all to their town as they can do.  So we welcome your critiques of the race, but if possible, please do say some nice things about the town and townspeople.

Edited by rich pierce, 09 November 2009 - 02:41 PM.

[cleeland]

Please heed what Rich says about the folks from town who help stage the race: I've never felt more welcomed at a large-scale event like that, other than, perhaps, the old Olney crit.

The H-R is a good race that is simply challenging.

Here's an idea: if a rolling enclosure isn't possible, would it be possible to have designated sections of the course closed while the race goes through it?  This might allow riders to move forward or shuffle around a bit without the dangers and hard feelings associated with yellow line violations.

[The Honorable Fuji]

Honestly that turn helped make the race.  If the wind was from the north you had to fight for position before the turn then you got slammed by the cross-wind and you could really blow the race up.  I hope you add a similar direction changing turn, it keeps the race harder.

Whoever said there are no tactics obviously should learn about tactics, because the last time I checked staying at the front out of the wind is a tactic.  This race doesn't allow you to just sit in and sprint (which is why stl guys complain about it) so you actually have to race.  

I really liked that corner and I hope it is replaced by a similar one.

[rich pierce]

Good question about the possibility of making a special rolling enclosure or permanently enclosed section for all-out, gutter to gutter mayhem (just kidding Chris, you KNOW racers would NEVER do THAT). The problem is that after the first lap, racers are ALWAYS going through every section, because there are many fields on the course and some folks going backwards.  So rolling enclosure is out, and permanent enclosure is out because the roads belong to the people.

Regarding suggestions, and the idea that the race has not improved or changed, or that we are not responsive or trying (if that was implied earlier in some posts): Last year we made a significant change and improvement by going to chip timing.  Results were accurate and super-efficient.

This year we're again making changes based on racers' and officals' recommendations (these include a longer race lap, fewer laps, allowing more distance between fields and easing scoring, while lessening danger by removing the sketchiest sections, and allowing more opportunities for racers to advance by having more miles of wider road).

We probably won't do more than that in any one year.  If anyone wants to chat about how to improve the race based on what they've done in similar venues, shoot me an email with your telephone # so I can give you a call, and leave Todd alone to manage the 30,000 other things on his checklist.  We probably won't have a continued discussion here, or decide what we'll do "Live on STL Biking.com!"

rpierce@dom.wustl.edu

[celeste55]

honestly what i was more scared about during the H-R than the yellow line violations, sketchy roads, and early season jitters, was the wreckless driving by officials who decided that a ten foot wide road was a good time to pass our whole field (in a suburban), spraying gravel into the field, then stopping us to yell at us while the break gained time.  They did this numerous times.  The small roads should just be closed to traffic 100% and there should be no yellow line rule on the "candy" section of the lollipop course....if that makes sense.

[zootv]

celeste55, on 09 November 2009 - 07:16 PM, said:

honestly what i was more scared about during the H-R than the yellow line violations, sketchy roads, and early season jitters, was the wreckless driving by officials who decided that a ten foot wide road was a good time to pass our whole field (in a suburban), spraying gravel into the field, then stopping us to yell at us while the break gained time.  They did this numerous times.  The small roads should just be closed to traffic 100% and there should be no yellow line rule on the "candy" section of the lollipop course....if that makes sense.

yepper i wont be back, havent been back in awhile,  they dont follow the rules, yellow line,  they let others use other fields to pace up to me,           other riders dont get out of the way, from other races,   and then they sit on my wheel.  and if its windy,,  the pack is all over the road,           i say give the race to the guy thats way in the back, and on the right side of the road, the way it should be,  why because hes riding by the rules.          so be it/ if you cant ride into the wind or crosswind,              anyways, wish you all the best, and yes everyone is really nice up there too,             too bad they  did away with the biathlon,  they have a outside person doing it,  they really mess up a wonderful race.   better to have mom and pop run the race.   o well,  nothing last ,

[K Mulligan]

FYI I was told recently by the organizers that Hillsboro next year is on April 10, 2010.

It is a better race than the tour of Herrman and any criteriums on the planet.