[phawley]

I agree on both thoughts. I think the 600# is maybe 3 dudes together, but I don't 3 bike racers will ever equal 600#, save for the legendary fully-kitted Lampre tifoso.

[FattyM]

live2beoutside, on Dec 20 2008, 02:26 PM, said:

FattyM, on Dec 20 2008, 08:01 AM, said:

. . . RS finally comes out with a description of the "damage". Apparently it is nothing more than scratched paint! What a joke. . .

Not sure where you got this - I haven't seen any updates since the VeloNews link I posted - which states:

"We have precision instruments here and then 600 pounds of person falls on them," Sachs said. He hasn't fully assessed the damage. "Several of the bikes will be in need of re-paints, at least,"

Having seen several photo's, I'd be really surprised if there aren't some bent frames and cracked or bent handlebars in the final itemized list of damages. Time will tell . . . .

That's exactly where I got it. If he's inspected the bikes close enough to see scratched paint, I'm sure he'd already know if any of the "precision instruments" (give me a break-they are bike parts) were damaged.

And I doubt the paint was pristine before the incident. RS is coming off like like the guy with the beater you tap in the parking lot who falls out of his car, grabbing his neck.

They were steel frames, right? There's no way you could do anything more than scratch it if you stomped or fell on it. At worst, you *might* bend a derailuer hanger.

Look - no one should have their stuff messed with or broken...but I think RS should ask Page's tough guy brother-in-law for some $$$ too. It really all hinges on who took it to the physical level.

And did anyone else catch the whole amateur vs. Pro undercurrent in O'Grady's piece? How dare an "amateur" racer criticize a pro! The heckling was probably tastless, but heckling doesn't give a man the right to put his hands on you.

[live2beoutside]

FattyM, on Dec 20 2008, 05:53 PM, said:

. . . Look - no one should have their stuff messed with or broken...but I think RS should ask Page's tough guy brother-in-law for some $$$ too. It really all hinges on who took it to the physical level.

I think the VeloNews article mentioned someone got the incident on video. I agree that all three guys probably share in responsibility for the damage. It will be interesting to see how it plays out . . .

[1776]

mattd_2020, on Dec 16 2008, 05:55 PM, said:

"As far as the Springfield boys goes, I didn't see the start of the fight, but that first picture to me looks like Jim Farasay got pushed into those bikes and Cale was just helping his friend out.(Huff was nowhere to be seen.) In the end it was just a lot of pushing and yelling that I saw."

So the short guy has to have his friend fight his battles? Also, is not Page's bro-in-law a cop? I cannot understand why the KC police did not pursue criminal charges on the two losers for assaulting a police officer. Does not assaulting a cop = prison time? Say "hello" to Tyrone and Bubba, boys.

[fish]

The following is a report that most closely follows the reports I heard after the fact. Not sure who wrote it so it could be skewed but it sounds consistent to me.

Quote

Author: Old Man Roadie
Date: 12-20-08 23:46

While I agree with most of the comments against heckling officials I don't think that shouting comments at professional athletes is something fans should be prohibited from doing. Its a pretty slippery slope to say its okay to say these sorts of things and not okay to say those. Who gets to make that rule? Does the Secret Service get to start a scuffle with every one carrying a sign and a bull horn at an Obama rally? I agree they generally get the "Shoe Throwers" removed, sometimes with physical force, but most decenters are allowed to hold up their signs. Its part of being a public figure.

What I heard was a response these guys had to an answer Johnathan Page gave in the interview. The question was asked if he thought the level of competition in US cyclocross events over the last three years had risen. It was asked in relation to the fact that he has lots of experience racing in Europe and could provide some insight. His answer was that he had bad legs and it wasn't the competition in the US so much as his lack of form. The heckler didn't yell any obscenities, and merely said Page should quit his whining and go back to Europe. I don't think they even quit walking while they said it. And while it was not supportive of Page, it certainly was not a personal attack on him.

The ensuing scrum resulted when someone from Page's camp challenged one of the hecklers. The Page supporter stopped the two men from continuing to walk to the parking lot. He got in their face and he put his hands on them first. While both parties share blame for the scuffle, it seems that only one party is getting any bad press. After the initial melee, (the one we see pictures of) there was a second scuffle where more Page supporters physically attacked the two hecklers in the parking lot. Page's mechanic was one of the attackers in this second round and I haven't seen his involvement reported in any article or opinion column.

After the second go-round, the two hecklers stayed at the venue and talked with police to give their side of the story. Not a single Page supporter involved in the scuffle (and they reportedly called the police) was present to file their side of the story in the report. They had already left the area. Leaving the scene of a fight where I was the victim after I called the police doesn't sound too smart.

And as for Richard Sachs' claims; more than once he had opportunity to show the damage to the bicycles and wouldn't. He also had a chance to press charges but didn't.

Instead, both the Page supporters and Mr. Sachs went to the court of public opinion where they knew they held an edge. I'm not saying that I think the heckler's had no liability in the event, but they clearly were only part of the problem.

And for Mr. O'Grady to say that if they had kept their mouth shut there wouldn't have been a problem is pretty simplistic. If about a half dozen people had acted more like adults than they did, there wouldn't have been a problem. With that said, cartoons wouldn't be funny and papers wouldn't get sold without a hero and a villain.

It seems to me that in this case it was easier to ignore the events, and create a villain than it was to find out what really happened and criticize everyone's behavior.

Fan's yelling are not the only problem. Athletes with egos are not the only problem. Well intentioned supporters are not the only problem. Only covering half the story is a problem.

[mattd_2020]

1776, on Dec 21 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

mattd_2020, on Dec 16 2008, 05:55 PM, said:

"As far as the Springfield boys goes, I didn't see the start of the fight, but that first picture to me looks like Jim Farasay got pushed into those bikes and Cale was just helping his friend out.(Huff was nowhere to be seen.) In the end it was just a lot of pushing and yelling that I saw."

So the short guy has to have his friend fight his battles? Also, is not Page's bro-in-law a cop? I cannot understand why the KC police did not pursue criminal charges on the two losers for assaulting a police officer. Does not assaulting a cop = prison time? Say "hello" to Tyrone and Bubba, boys.

I am pretty sure that cops have to hold to the same laws as regular citizens and if the "two losers" had not been touched then nothing else other that some LEGAL heckling would have happened. If anyone should have been charged with assault it would be Pages brother in law and his mechanic. Both of whom appeared to have fled the scene. It doesen't seem like a cop who was in the right would have run off like that.

Save all the Page love for his blog. I am sure he will love knowing that you are so blindly his fan.

[FattyM]

Cops, of all people, should know better when to take things to the next level. This guy was not even on duty, nor had any right to do anything more than a private citizen could do. (he is not a KC cop or anything)

Thanks for posting that, Fish - that was the story I heard as well.

[live2beoutside]

FattyM, on Dec 21 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

. . . Thanks for posting that, Fish .. .

If that story is even reasonably accurate, it certainly shows that the VeloNews report was quite skewed. I'm neither a Page supporter nor a cross follower. It was only by chance that I even happened to notice the VeloNews report. As far as O'Grady's musings . . . I consider O'Grady's columns to be satirical babble and on the rare occasion I do read one, I remind myself that I catagorize O'Grady with the radio shock jocks that say things like "Bicycles don't belong in the road, next time you see one, run them over . . .". I never take anything he writes to be anything but shock-jock cr@p.

[Double D]

live2beoutside, on Dec 21 2008, 05:10 PM, said:

FattyM, on Dec 21 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

. . . Thanks for posting that, Fish .. .

If that story is even reasonably accurate, it certainly shows that the VeloNews report was quite skewed. I'm neither a Page supporter nor a cross follower. It was only by chance that I even happened to notice the VeloNews report. As far as O'Grady's musings . . . I consider O'Grady's columns to be satirical babble and on the rare occasion I do read one, I remind myself that I catagorize O'Grady with the radio shock jocks that say things like "Bicycles don't belong in the road, next time you see one, run them over . . .". I never take anything he writes to be anything but shock-jock cr@p.

That seems like a more reasonable accounting to me given what I know about Cale and Jim. If Page snubbed the whole American circuit and basicly said we aren't worthy, the question to me is why Cale and Jim were the only one's offended by this remark? The whole mob should have boo'd and thrown tomatoes at this guy.

Never trust the news media to get anything right.